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HRPI Interview Nick Pope:

Journalist and TV personality Nick Pope, who used to run the British Government's UFO Project and is now recognised as one of the world's leading experts on UFOs, the unexplained and conspiracy theories.

How did you get the job working at the Ministry of Defence and what was your original reaction when you found out you was working on the British Government's UFO project?

I joined the Ministry of Defence in 1985.  At the time, the policy was to move people every 2 or 3 years, either on level transfer or promotion, so that everybody gained experience in a wide range of different jobs.  In 1990 I was working in a division called Secretariat(Air Staff) and had been seconded into the Air Force Operations Room in the Joint Operations Centre.  I worked there in the run-up to the first Gulf War, during the war itself, and in the aftermath of the conflict.  I was a briefer, preparing material for the key daily briefings to Ministers and the Service Chiefs.  My job was to collect raw data about RAF operations and pick out the key things that senior personnel needed to know: details of any casualties and losses, targets attacked, battle damage assessment, etc.  It was an interesting and very high-tempo job.  It was while working there that I was approached and asked whether, after I was released from duties in the Joint Operations Centre, I would like to run the UFO project, which was embedded in another part of Secretariat(Air Staff).  I accepted the invitation and took over this job in July 1991.  So, in effect, I was headhunted.  I had mixed thoughts about taking up the job.  I knew it would be interesting, but as somebody who was ambitious, I wondered whether it would adversely affect my career because of the 'giggle factor' that the term UFO engenders.  But in the end I decided to take the job.  I went in with an open mind, though I had no particular interest in UFOs at the time and no particular beliefs on the subject

What was the British Government's reaction when you went public about this classified information?

 

I should clarify the position here.  I'm not a whistleblower and have never divulged any classified information.  I have only ever discussed information which is unclassified or that the government itself has declassified and authorised for release.  My position is no different to that of a former soldier discussing Afghanistan on a news programme.  The soldier is there to give an expert opinion based on personal experience, but would not reveal classified information relating to rules of engagement, counter IED tactics, etc.  I still have many friends at the MoD and although it's been 3 years since I left, I'm regularly invited back for various social functions.

 

UFO photos and footage are notoriously suspect. Have you seen anything that has made you go  - “Wow!" ?

 

Perhaps the most fascinating photograph I saw was taken in 1990 in Scotland.  It was taken during the daytime and showed a diamond-shaped craft a few hundred feet in the air.  A military aircraft could be seen further away.  MoD's technical specialists examined the photograph and concluded that it was genuine and that the craft was about 25 metres in diameter.  We speculated that it might have had an exotic propulsion system, which was one of our main areas of interest.  For many years an enlarged copy of this photograph was on my office wall.  Unfortunately, the Ministry of Defence claim to have lost the photograph, so it has not been released - although documents relating to it have been.  Of course, photographs and films cannot be judged in isolation.  To make a definitive assessment one has to interview the witness, examine the camera, widen the investigation to examine radar tapes, etc.

 

What are your views on Robbie Williams taking an interest in Ufology. Do you think this is a positive or negative thing?

I've met Robbie Williams and discussed the subject.  He's a nice guy and has a genuine interest in the subject.  He's one of a number of celebrities who has taken an interest in this subject.  Some have spoken publicly about this.  Others have not.  I think it's positive thing when celebrities get involved but invariably ufologists simply focus on whether they might put money into the subject.  The other point is that while people like Robbie Williams are doubtless fascinated by the subject, the pressure of their other commitments often precludes them getting as involved in the subject as ufologists might hope.

 

What are your opinions on recent newspaper reports bringing ufology back into the limelight?

I welcome it and as someone who now works as a freelance journalist and media commentator I've been a part of it.  In the last year or two the UFO phenomenon has ceased to be a fringe subject and has become increasingly mainstream.  I've written about this subject in The Times and The New York Times, as well as having discussed it on Newsnight, Today and other 'Establishment' TV and radio programmes.  There have been two reasons for the upsurge in reporting.  Firstly, the increase in UFO reports and secondly, the publicity generated by the MoD releasing its UFO files.  The Sun has also played a big part in this.  The paper has run a steady stream of UFO stories, two of which have been run as the main front page headline.

 

In your opinion, is there a military/government cover-up concerning the nature of UFOs, whatever the reason?

I can only speak with any direct authority and knowledge in relation to the position in the UK.  While undertaking my official research and investigations I found no evidence that any elements within the UK government, military or intelligence agencies were covering up information relating to the true nature of UFOs.  And I say this as someone who - at the time - had an extremely high security clearance coupled with what's termed the 'need to know' - these are the two key factors that determine what classified information you're entitled to see.


We have heard the MOD buildings in London are haunted is this true?


Ghosts have certainly been seen in MoD buildings in London.  The sixth floor of Metropole Building (a former hotel requisitioned by the Ministry of Munitions in 1916) is reputedly haunted by the ghost of a chambermaid who was murdered in the hotel and whose body was hidden in a cupboard.  Even MoD Main Building is supposedly haunted.  Built on the site of the old Whitehall Palace, which dates from the 12th century, the basement still contains an old Tudor wine cellar dating from 1529.  The wine cellar is now used for social functions, but I've spoken to some of the security guards who patrol the building at night, and they tell me they've seen ghosts in that area of the building.  One guard told me that he'd seen what he presumed to be an intruder walk across the corridor from one room to another.  He issued a challenge but on reaching the spot where the figure had been seen, found there were no doors - the figure had apparently walked through the walls.  Ghosts weren't in my terms of reference, by the way, but it was impossible to have a UFO project without it becoming a focal point for all sorts of other weird reports.  There's a short article on my website, entitled MoD Ghosts, which gives details of other military locations that are supposedly haunted.  
 
What is your opinion of Dr. David Clarke's and other researchers who campaign to get files on the UFOs released to the public?

It's not fair to credit individual ufologists for the MoD releasing its UFO files, because many different people have been lobbying the MoD on this issue.  Indeed, the main reason that the MoD released the files was because they received more Freedom of Information Act requests relating to UFOs than on any other subject.  Several dozens ufologists and hundreds of other members of the public wrote to the MoD about this until ultimately the Department decided it would be easier to release the files than to respond individually to the hundreds of FOI requests they were receiving.  I support the MoD release of this material.  While arguably the decision was only made because of the public pressure, it's still a good example of open government.
 
What is your personal opinions of what Happened at Warminster?

There were clearly many UFO sightings and reports of other paranormal phenomena.  However, the whole Warminster phenomenon then became something of a media circus and this distorted the true picture.  Warminster was regarded as a hotspot for UFOs and the unexplained, but the true picture was probably more complex.  My MoD research into such hotspots cast doubt on the idea that places such as Warminster had more sightings than elsewhere and suggested instead that media coverage encouraged a higher proportion of people who had had a UFO sighting or a strange experience to come forward.
 
What are your future plans and are you working on any more books?

I've already written 4 books and while I don't rule out writing more, they take between 6 months and a year to write and at present I'm too busy with other projects.  I write for various newspapers and magazines as a freelance journalist and I do work for film companies and PR agencies, promoting new science fiction movies and DVDs.  But most of my work now involves TV and radio, where I contribute to a wide range of programmes, commentating on subjects that include the unexplained, conspiracy theories, science fiction, space, fringe science and defence.
 
Do you think we will ever get definitive proof of life elsewhere in the universe or that aliens have visited earth from any government within the next 100 years?

I don't know if we've been visited so I can't answer the second question.  But as to intelligent life elsewhere in the universe, it's quite possible that we'll obtain proof - probably in the form of detecting a signal with a radio telescope.  The construction of the Square Kilometre Array could help with this.  It's a radio telescope so powerful that - when fully operational - it should be able to find any artificial signal out to a distance of maybe 100 light years. 

 

How about a quick game of association? I'll give you a name or a subject and you provide a snap opinion...

 

Crop Circles ...

Impressive, but man-made.

J.Allen Hynek …

Made a massive contribution to ufology.

Roswell ...

Will never be solved.

Rendlesham …

Britain's most compelling UFO incident.

Men In Black …

More fiction than fact.  Nice movie though.

George Adamski …

"Interesting, if true", as they say in the world of intelligence analysis.

The Kenneth Arnold sighting 'that started it all' ...

The beginning of a modern mystery.

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